Gimli's Helm, etc.

[ket_the_jet]

Oh you mean Sapling while he wears Armor? That's another story lol; BoC + Armor is trash. By himself he's ace with a few Saplings Or just make it so he won't fight

No Armor. Just Boromir, Bearer of Council and Sapling of the White Tree. If you use him to fight and decide to wound him twice, you cannot prevent one of those wounds with Sapling of the White Tree. Well, actually, you can prevent one wound, and then you have to add the three burdens (in addition to the one wound placed from your original decision). You are changing the rules for him to fight.

@Anautikus: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,1507.0.html
-wtk

[RedGoldStag]

From page 18 of the Comprehensive Rulebook, under the "Wound" entry:

"If a character cannot take wounds, wounds cannot be assigned to that character. However, if a card prevents wounds, wounds may still be assigned to that character.

Faramir, Wizard's Pupil reads: "Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to prevent all wounds to Faramir." This prevents wounds as they are assigned to Faramir, not the assignments themselves."

Similarly, for Gimli's Helm, if you use the skirmish ability and discard it, and threats are triggered during that skirmish, you can soak all of the threat wounds with the helm (since it prevents the wounds). If you leave the helm on Gimli, its passive ability means that you can't assign more than one threat wound to him (since he can only take 1 wound per skirmish).

[ket_the_jet]

From page 18 of the Comprehensive Rulebook, under the "Wound" entry:

"If a character cannot take wounds, wounds cannot be assigned to that character. However, if a card prevents wounds, wounds may still be assigned to that character.

Faramir, Wizard's Pupil reads: "Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to prevent all wounds to Faramir." This prevents wounds as they are assigned to Faramir, not the assignments themselves."

Similarly, for Gimli's Helm, if you use the skirmish ability and discard it, and threats are triggered during that skirmish, you can soak all of the threat wounds with the helm (since it prevents the wounds). If you leave the helm on Gimli, its passive ability means that you can't assign more than one threat wound to him (since he can only take 1 wound per skirmish).

! RedGoldStag making it happen! So Gimli's Helm is indeed a pretty powerful card because it can absorb the threat wounds! That is fantastic!
-wtk

[Anautikus]

gg RedGoldStag. So does that mean the Berserk Butcher can also absorb wounds as well? That changes a lot. And thanks Ket for clearing up the BoC dilemma. That's why I resort to Boromir never having to be assigned

[ket_the_jet]

As archery is assigned by the Shadow player, that leads me to believe that Berserk Butcher and his band of jolly Uruk-Hai could absorb all archery wounds. This was quite an interesting discovery indeed!
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

Ket for clearing up the BoC dilemma. That's why I resort to Boromir never having to be assigned

No problem. I used to think the Sapling of the White Tree thing was a ham and jam idea. I am with Thranduil in that I don't know why it is against the rules, but it is so I'll roll with it.

I think there are some people who want to go build Gimli's Helm/ Berserk Butcher decks!
-wtk

[Pepin The Breve]

I'm still not sure about the helm soaking threats.

Say you have gimli with his hat and another companion is skirmishing a minion. Another companion lose the skirmish and actions triggering by that taken place (place a wound)... That result in killing the character (and then trheats triggers) and here is the main question: the skirmish have resolved, so we still on the skirmish phase and still be able to perform skirmish special abilities? Or we have to wait until next skirmish starts to use it (since it's not a response action). the rulebook states that when a skirmish ends the free people player have to choose what will be the next skirmish to take place and then it begins...

From rulebook:
• Free Peoples player chooses a skirmish.
• Players perform skirmish actions.
• Resolve that skirmish and assign wounds.
• If any skirmishes are unresolved, repeat this procedure.

I think if the helm or cards like Lorien Protector (13S20), Keep Your Forked Tongue (4U96) and so may others were able to prevent threat wounds they would be tremendous overpowered!

[Anautikus]

No problem. I used to think the Sapling of the White Tree thing was a ham and jam idea. I am with Thranduil in that I don't know why it is against the rules, but it is so I'll roll with it.

Agree with you two on the Saplling ruling as well; it's just good deck-building like Thranduil said.

[RedGoldStag]

I'm still not sure about the helm soaking threats.

Say you have gimli with his hat and another companion is skirmishing a minion. Another companion lose the skirmish and actions triggering by that taken place (place a wound)... That result in killing the character (and then trheats triggers) and here is the main question: the skirmish have resolved, so we still on the skirmish phase and still be able to perform skirmish special abilities? Or we have to wait until next skirmish starts to use it (since it's not a response action). the rulebook states that when a skirmish ends the free people player have to choose what will be the next skirmish to take place and then it begins...

From rulebook:
• Free Peoples player chooses a skirmish.
• Players perform skirmish actions.
• Resolve that skirmish and assign wounds.
• If any skirmishes are unresolved, repeat this procedure.

I think if the helm or cards like Lorien Protector (13S20), Keep Your Forked Tongue (4U96) and so may others were able to prevent threat wounds they would be tremendous overpowered!

You're right that you can't use the Helm's ability after threats have been triggered; you'd have to discard it as a skirmish action during the skirmish during which (or as the result of which) someone dies. It can work as a threat-soaker because, at the time threat wounds are triggered, the skirmish phase is not over (although you have moved past the part where you can perform skirmish actions). Here's how the timing would work for successful use of the Helm to soak up threat wounds:

1. During a skirmish, discard Gimli's Helm to prevent all wounds to him for the remainder of that skirmish.

2. Either as a result of taking a wound during the skirmish (Red Wrath, Whirling Strike, etc.) or losing the skirmish (no spare vitality, or overwhelmed), another companion or ally dies.

3. Threat wounds are triggered; as this is still the same skirmish phase, the effect from discarding Gimli's Helm is still active, so all wounds to him are prevented. As mentioned in the rulebook entry I cited above, this means that you can assign all of the threat wounds to Gimli and have them essentially do nothing.

[Kralik]

"If a character cannot take wounds, wounds cannot be assigned to that character. However, if a card prevents wounds, wounds may still be assigned to that character.

Faramir, Wizard's Pupil reads: "Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to prevent all wounds to Faramir." This prevents wounds as they are assigned to Faramir, not the assignments themselves."

Thanks! I was just about to comb through the rulebook again, as I was sure I had seen this line with Faramir, WP. Because of the wording difference between "cannot" and "prevent," I would also understand that Swept Away still works at Steward's Tomb, since the wounds are not prevented but impossible to place.

I tend to agree on the ability of Gimli's Helm or Wizard's Pupil to prevent threat wounds... I think it still counts as being part of the skirmish phase (otherwise, what phase is it?). The point that discarding the helm makes its game text of "1 wound" inactive is key.

[Elessar's Socks]

Because of the wording difference between "cannot" and "prevent," I would also understand that Swept Away still works at Steward's Tomb, since the wounds are not prevented but impossible to place.

Right, Swept Away still works because of the gameplay difference between "cannot" and "prevent." Swept Away is not "preventing" wounds, the part Steward's Tomb cares about, by making wounds assigned to the Wraiths fizzle. Instead, it stops wounds from being assigned to the Wraiths in the first place.

Threats being triggered during a skirmish phase is one of the things that makes Promise Keeping such a great card.

[Kralik]

Threats being triggered during a skirmish phase is one of the things that makes Promise Keeping such a great card.

Good to hear it. Yet another use for my Wizard's Pupil deck (I'll sacrifice WoBaS if needed to clear threats).

[ket_the_jet]

I can't believe that this one realization has opened up so many deck possibilities! Fantastic stuff!
-wtk

[Not a Zombie]

High vantage

[ket_the_jet]

High vantage

Another one of my favorite cards.
-wtk