My problems with The Dark Knight (WARNING: Unsavory Language Within!)

[ket_the_jet]

My Problems With The Dark Knight:

WARNING! Language below may be of the unsavory nature.

This list is in no particular order. I will state that the biggest disappointment in the movie was that the cool parts were just so damned cool that the lame parts really subtracted from what could have been a great super-hero movie!

I guess I will start with a problem I find universal to Super-hero and action movies. I call it the Pierce Brosnan effect. Let's look at the James Bond film, Die Another Day. We have a hero, James Bond who is badass. Why is he badass? Because he is James Bond! He is just innately badass for being who he is. Now, over the course of the movie, the hero's gadgets (namely, a certain Jaguar XKR which turned INVISIBLE) overshadow the innate coolness of James Bond. That is, James Bond always had nifty gadgets, but he used the gadgets in tight jams or out of context. He didn't have access to INVISIBLE CARS. Applying this to Batman: The Dark Knight, Batman is cool. He's the goddamned Batman for Christ's sake. He doesn't need a cellphone that can create sonar imagery of a building! I mean, Batman is supposed to take place in a fictional world that can be mistaken for the real world. There isn't a #$&*@! iPhone application that can map out a building. The gadget took away from Batman's innate coolness (keep in mind, Batman originated as the World's Greatest Detective!) by giving him a 'weapon' that automatically wipes out any need for detective work.

The next issue I had with the movie isn't so much a plot-issue; however, it is something that has yet to be addressed. Aaron Eckhart signed a two movie contract--and they killed him. The last thing in the world I want to see is, "Hey look, I am magically alive after being declared dead! What do you know! Must be my other half that survived!" situation. I hate with all that is in me when characters die and are brought back to life. It would be like Pippin and Gandalf showing up at Minas Tirith and being greeted by Denethor and Boromir! Some of you have read my incomplete list of coolest Batman villains, so you know that Two-Face is my favorite villain (he is the perfect foil to Bruce Wayne!) But if they bring him back from the dead, I would have rather him been killed off.

I am not a fan of Maggie Gyllanhall. She isn't overtly attractive and I have a hard time thinking that Bruce Wayne would be attracted to her. Even harder than the time I had thinking Bruce Wayne would be attracted to Mrs. Cruise and her lazy eye. Casting a character who looks similar, okay, but they should have just gotten some slammin' hottie. Like Olivia Wilde.

Now we will move onto actual plot issues I had with the movie, starting small and working larger. This is just a little thing that didn't sit right with me. I don't know how many of you remember the little #$&*@! who worked for Wayne Enterprises and was a malcontent. Portrayed by Joshua Harto, that was, the one and only, Coleman Reese. Coleman Reese? Who the #$&*@! is that? you may ask. Don't worry, I was asking that too...BUT...think about his back story. He, like I said, was a malcontent at Wayne Enterprises. What other Batman super-villain started out as a malcontent at Wayne Enterprises? That's right, the Riddler! But William, they never announce he's the Riddler! you say... Think about it. Coleman Reese. Mr. Reese. Mysteries. It's not exactly Edward Nygma (enigma), but you would think that the story-writers would have noticed that? My problem isn't that he could be The Riddler. My problem is that he's a little #$&*@! pudgy pissant in the movie and I would prefer someone badass and high-profile to be the Riddler, not Joshua Harto!

From a plot standpoint, Joker should have died. The only reason I believe that he lived is that Heath Ledger died. Which is dumb. My condolences to friends and family but there is no reason that what happens in the real world should affect what happens in a movie. The Joker should have been splattered all over the pavement. If anything Harvey Dent (Two-Face) should have survived, for aforementioned reasons (movie contract, etc.)

But this little problem brings me to the big two. These last two issues really ruined the movie for me. The first is one scene. With two boats. And Joker explains each boat has the power to blow up the other boat. And what happens? No one blows up the other boat. And humanity wins. HUMANITY NEVER #$&*@! WINS! Throughout history, there is never a single instance of humanity actually beating the odds and doing what is right on such a large scale. Let's say there were 700 people per boat (probably a small estimate). That means that 1400 people didn't value their lives enough to blow up the other boat. Before some of you say that you wouldn't press the button, guess what, I would and I bet there aren't 1400 of you in Gotham City anyways! This would have been better: Joker says, "You press the button to blow up the other boat." Someone presses the button and it actually blows up their boat. That way Joker can have a laugh at the insanity and humanity doesn't win. I hate to be cynical, but I guarantee at least 1 out of 1400 people would value their lives enough to risk it. Especially since one was a boat of convicts! #$&*@! poor, man.

And finally, we work our way to the last issue. The last scene in the whole movie. Two-Face dies. Batman and Commissioner Gordon chat. It basically goes like this:
Batman: "He's dead."
Gordon: "Well, that sucks."
Batman: "Wait, I'll take the heat for this."

WHAT?! There is no reason for Batman to assume guilt here! Even if they did want to preserve Dent's image, easy solution:
Batman: "He's dead."
Gordon: "Well, that sucks."
Batman: "Let's pin this on Joker's goonies!"

Now Gotham City can still have its vigilante hero and Batman can keep his reputation that he tarnished for no #$&*@! reason! Anyways, I await the numerous responses I will probably get in response to this thread. Moderators, please don't censor me.
-wtk

[Gil-Estel]

First of, language......Kettie, kettie, kettie....shame on you.

Second: Hilarious! Agreed on the overpowered toys. But I think the actor himself should have some coolness. Christian Bale isn't that cool, and especially when using his weird Batman voice. That sucks big time. I mean, if you are Batman, if you have the gadgets you could have a voicetransformer that makes you sound like Optimus Prime!
Same with the last Terminator movie. Again Christian Bale, playing the 'hero'. This other, way tougher and cooler dude shows op, saves the day and gives his life for that of Bale's... I was like...WHAT?!!

On the hottie subject. Agreed totally! You spend millions of dollars for the visual aspects of the movie with special effects and such, and then pay her money too for her appearance. Weird. Why not Natalie Portman, for whom I melt like snow in the sun...sigh......

It would have been better indeed -moviewise- if more people died, but then again I can understand why certain choices are made. They wanted a point in the movie where indeed the good guys win and finally there's an end to all madness.

[lem0nhead]

Dude you way over analyse films lol. I guess i must be shallow cos i saw a cool film woth nice special effects, a plot which seems to be lacking in films these days and a generally entertaining couple of hours. Seeing as you have highlighted some issues though that I previously would not have bothered to delve into, wanting merely to enjoy the film on a visual scale rather a deeper level (when after all this is a cartoon made real hack and slash crimefighting hero film not an adaptation of tolstoys war and peace), I will comment on a few things I agree with.

Maggie G is almost androgenous and I agree, for such a massive film it wouldnt have been hard to pick just about any other female actor who would have been more attractive.

Why Eckhart turned up in the second was pure annoying. No reason for it as you say. Retarded.

Thirdly, youre #$&*@! right. That button would have been pressed so fast that I imagine after about 2 seconds both of the boats would have exploded as at least 20 people dived to press it on both boats. But more like 95% of the convicts. Theyre not usually in jail cos they have good consciences. Theyre in cos they rape young/old ladies and rob banks probably murdering people as they go. These sorts of people do not care for others lives. Idiot directing, thinking humanity actually matters to each other and that even scum have a moral compass.

And yeah, WHY IN #$&*@! does batman feel the need to take public responsiblity for dent's death it has NO BASIS for common sense at all. Irritated me slightly at the time.

Still i thought it was an ace movie.

[turin08]

Mate all your reasons are ridiculous. Especially the one about why they didn't kill the joker. They couldn't base any decision on Heath Ledgers death cos he died about a year after principal photography had finished. Nolan has said in interviews that that the Joker was meant to be the villain for the third film and then heaths death thew everything off. Batman has always used gadgets, in the comics, tv shows and films most of which are a unrealistic so you obviously haven't seen or read much batman if you don't like them. As for Maggie G, how about he loves her because of their shared childhood, her personality, their shared passions. To say that his attraction to her is unrealistic because she's not some super hot mega babe is shallow and stupid. Firstly she's not that bad looking and secondly she's a good actress. I thought the bit on the boats was brilliantly done and very tense. You seem to have completely missed the point of the moment. The whole idea of that bit was to show that the Joker was wrong and not everyone is like him. Sure in real life someone probably would have pressed the button but this isn't real life its a film, a film with a message. I really liked that. The whole Riddler thing I think your way over annalysing.

[ket_the_jet]

I appreciate the responses thus far. I thought I would clear up a few things.

1. My brother writes and illustrates comics for a living. His bedroom is wall-to-wall long boxes and shelves of graphic novels. I have access to a lot and understand the intricacies of the Batman character.

2. I'll be honest that Christian Bale's voice as Batman didn't bother me so much. It is common in Batman lore that he tries to disguise his voice. That said, Kevin Conroy (who has voiced Batman in every animated iteration since Batman: The Animated Series) has a voice that would melt butter and make a wolverine purr. He doesn't look like he could be Batman, but he definitely could have voice-overed!

3. The filming was completed five days before Ledger died. Not hard to get a stand-in.

4. The only child-hood friends that I crush on now are the ones I had a lot in common with and are upwards of 3.5 on the -5 to 5 scale. Gyllanhall is a 1.25 tops. Good actress? Maybe, but not really.

5. I got the point of the bit on the boats. It is that not every thinks like Joker, etc. But that's the problem. Everyone, and I mean everyone has a little tiny dark side (some smaller than others) and I wouldn't put my boat's safety on the assumption that you wouldn't press the button, let alone the other 699 people on your boat! I didn't miss the point. I thought the point was #$&*@! stupid.

6. My problem with the gadget is it did not fit into the technology of the universe built in the movie and overshadowed Batman's innate coolness.

7. Maybe Rachel Dawes will come back as Hush! Unlikely, but that would still be kind of funny!

8. I already acknowledged that I over analyze movies. It is a very short list of films that I really like. But my biggest problem with The Dark Knight is that it could have been so cool and it just disappointed me.

Cheers.
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

It is also worth noting, in all respect, that I didn't think that Heath Ledger's acting as the Joker was mind-blowing by any means. It was eerie because he had passed away, but other than that, I am pretty sure anyone who has read Alan Moore's The Killing Joke would understand that Joker is dark, etc.

Gyllanhall (I now realize I misspelled it but I will continue for consistency's sake) and Bale were both a little disappointing in terms of acting as well sounding unconvincing and forced in bits.

Like usual, the first prize goes to Michael Caine and a close second was Eckhardt in terms of acting. Gary Oldman was pretty good too and Morgan Freeman never disappoints (what if his voice was the Bat's?! I could listen to him read a phone book...and pay money to hear it!)
-wtk

[Gil-Estel]

Michael Caine...you got to love him, and Morgan Freeman? The day I become a father I will write him a letter to ask him whether he will be the grandfather of my kids, so he can read them bedtime stories and such

[ket_the_jet]

It is well worth pointing out that Maggie Gyllenhaal (spelled it right this time) is known for being a notoriously catty #$&*@! and famously ripped Katie Holmes when taking the role.

After watching The Dark Knight, I determined that not only is she certainly not pretty enough to be Batman's main squeeze, but she is matronly and out of place altogether. Certainly she would have benefited from more...flattering camera angles and lighting, but she just did not fit the bill as the childhood friend that grew up to be the belle of the ball!

On record, I don't find either Katie Holmes or Maggie Gyllenhaal to be very attractive; however, I would have appreciated Holmes reprising her role over brining in Mrs. Gyllenhaal. If you were looking for someone more regal than beautiful, Kate Bosworth would have been a great pick.
-wtk

[BerserkWin]

My biggest gripe with the Batman movies in that Batman doesn't kill anyone.  A parade of armed bad guys, just waiting to kill our hero, has booby trapped a building and is holding hostages, but here comes Batman judo chopping and kicking his way through.  Take that.  LAME!  Batman's lack of violence might correlate with the comics... I wouldn't know.  I was always a Marvel guy.

Here's how it should go:  Armed agents break into a school full of children where Wolverine is staying and he stabs them in the neck.  Done.

[ket_the_jet]

Killing is completely outside of Batman's modus operandi.
-wtk

[Elrohir]

Do you recommand me to watch this film?

[MR. Lurtzy]

If you like Batman.

[Gil-Estel]

You should watch it.

[FM]

I'll admit I halted in Reese's bit, if that's what they're aiming at, it's quite a gem, no matter how much you hated how it was done. However, I think you're being a little paranoid, since thus far they HAVE been following the Comics at least a little, as far as Character's names go. The boat scene, I'll give it to you, retarded. Loved the message, almost brought tears to my eyes, but COMPLETELY out of place with the movie's idea. However, to correct some wrongs, convicts are not "mostly rapists and bankrobbers wich kill people". In fact, most convicts are in for drug problems (originated by OTHER society-realted problems I won't delve into right now) and for stealing/mugging/hurting (WITHOUT killing!) someone, and THESE kinds of convicts, surprisingly, usually DO have some humanity in them. Still would've blown up the boat, though.
As for his childhood sweetheart, I, too, agree that she does not have to be a looker. In fact, it's BETTER if she's not, it doesn't shift focus from who the main character is, unlike what they did in Spider Man, where Mary Jane has to have her screen time. He's not in love with her looks, but with her personality, and with their memories. I liked Katie Holmes better, though, she portraits the childhood sweetheart a lot better.
A side note, why does everyone have a bone to pick with Bale's voice? I like him a lot as Batman, he does a fine job. He's a terrible Bruce Wayne, though, it you ask me.
And as for the end, the idea is that Gordon has to keep his integrity, so he can't create a non-existant goon on the crime scene, nor plant anything. So, he has to tell Dent fell to his death after engaging Batman. What they agree on, though, is NOT tarnishing Dent, so they can create a Martyr for Gotham's society, which ends up tarnishing Batman, not that he decides to tarnish himself out of the blue.

[ket_the_jet]

However, to correct some wrongs, convicts are not "mostly rapists and bankrobbers wich kill people".

You must remember that in the Batman universe, there is prison, where your ordinary thugs, drug dealers, scammers, etc., go and there is Arkham Asylum where the true scum of the earth go. The prisoners aboard the boat weren't people who defaulted on taxes and robbed a convenience store...they were Arkham's worst!

As for his childhood sweetheart, I, too, agree that she does not have to be a looker. In fact, it's BETTER if she's not, it doesn't shift focus from who the main character is, unlike what they did in Spider Man, where Mary Jane has to have her screen time.

Kirsten Dunst is terribly unattractive. The cute best friend at best. But Mary Jane Watson is supposed to be a super-model...and Kirsten Dunst is certainly not that. Remember that when Peter first meets Mary Jane, the first words she says to him are, "Face it Tiger, you just hit the jackpot." I'm sorry, but Kirsten Dunst is not the jackpot at all. I do not know many famous redheaded models that would have been better for the role, but Jack White's wife, Karen Elson would have been a dandy pick at the time (about the perfect age for what the producers were going for when the movies were coming out).

And as for the end, the idea is that Gordon has to keep his integrity, so he can't create a non-existant goon on the crime scene, nor plant anything. So, he has to tell Dent fell to his death after engaging Batman. What they agree on, though, is NOT tarnishing Dent, so they can create a Martyr for Gotham's society, which ends up tarnishing Batman, not that he decides to tarnish himself out of the blue.

for your interpretation--and I understand that was the point they were trying to portray; however, it would still be easier to blame Joker's thugs and let everyone believe Batman is still the good guy. I know that in the Batman universe, he is hated by some, loved by some, and it is easy for future movies to have the "believers" and "unbelievers" but that was a terrible way to do it.
-wtk