Unofficial Rulebook Discussion #2 (Aug 4 - Aug 7) -- Discarding your hand

[Tbiesty]

This discussion and ruling is part of the series of discussions and rulings for an "Unofficial Rulebook" as described here.

This discussion will be open from Aug 4, 2010 - Aug 7, 2010.
The outcome of this discussion and ruling will be added to the "Unofficial Rulebook".

Discussion #2:

Can you choose to "discard (or exchange) your hand" if there are no cards in it?    (previous discussion)

Option 1:
Yes

Option 2:
No

[chompers]

I think the rulebook entry under 'cost' pretty much covers this one. You must pay the cost X to do Y. If you discard no cards, you have not paid a cost.

So I say option 2.

However .... Is this thread trying to distinguish between "Discard X cards from hand" and "Discard your hand"? If it is there may be a difference. Just asking because i am not sure.

Great work Tbiesty ... you are doing a fantastic job with this  

[Anautikus]

If it's "discard X cards from hand," then obviously not. However, if it's "discard your hand," then I'd go with yes, as I would take it that one would just have a hand of 0 cards to discard.

As for exchanging cards in hand, I think that would be a little irrelevant, because you would just be exchanging nothing for nothing.

[chompers]

Ok then ... Option 1 for discard your hand as your hand still exists even if it has no cards in it.

[MuadDib85]

Maybe some cards with examples would be good, to know what you are talking about.

I really do not see the point to this question..

[chompers]

This is the previous discussion ... the start of it is misleading as it refers to discarding X cards ... but the guts of it is about discarding your hand .... http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,4757.0.html

Just a suggestion Tbiesty .. perhaps add the previous discussion links to this thread as well.

[MR. Lurtzy]

Option 1 is correct. You always have a hand, no matter how many cards are in it.

[putridbreath]

An example could be site 7U345 --if you have no cards in hand at the start of the Manuver phase, must you add two burdens or are you allowed to discard your hand (even though it is empty)?

[Tbiesty]

Option 1 is correct. You always have a hand, no matter how many cards are in it.

I agree with Option 1 as well.

BTW, I added the link in the initial post to a previous discussion about this for reference.  An example of exchanging your hand would be Hall of Our Fathers.

[stimpy]

Great work Tbiesty ... you are doing a fantastic job with this 

Gotta say, you are doing a great job with this stuff Tbiesty. I wasn't aware of this issue but it truly has me confounded. My first reaction is to say Option 1, but when I think about the rules a little more I begin to think that Option 2 is correct. I think I start to agree with the folks who have said that you have to pay the cost; i.e. you have to discard something, otherwise burdens must be added (in the case of 7U345).

The issue with Hall of Our Fathers also has me a little stumped... if you have no cards in hand, can you exchange? I am torn...

[MuadDib85]

Option 1 is correct. You always have a hand, no matter how many cards are in it.

This is correct. Option 1.

The issue with Hall of Our Fathers also has me a little stumped... if you have no cards in hand, can you exchange? I am torn...

Yes.

[Elessar's Socks]

Yes to discard and exchange.

[mardukra]

Apology in advance for being off topic.  Does using Hall of Our Fathers trigger losing initiative like muster and reconciling your hand?

[Tbiesty]

If you had 4 or more cards in your hand and exchanged them for 3 or less cards, then I'd say you lost initiative at that point.  You go directly from having 4 cards to 3 cards; there isn't a point were you have 0 cards in hand (during the exchange).  So, exchanging 4 or more cards for 4 or more cards would not trigger losing initiative.  Make sense?

[mardukra]

Ah yes, "exchange" as opposed to "discard and then draw."  Thank you.