Helpless on RB Sam

[TheJord]

I have Sam, Bearer of Great Need with Frodo, Frenzied Fighter, and if Helpless gets played then Sam loses his gametext. This just means that Sam no longer gets his resistance bonus.

Ok, so whats the point of Helpless I play it on Sam, Son of Hamfast and it does.... what? Nothing?

[Pepin The Breve]

   His game text wouldn´t apply. So he will not be able to peel burdens out. It´s always good have SoH  :x when you play with Nazgul corruption. Anyway, i don´t like so specific as this.

   I guess you were thinking that his hability isn´t part of his gametext maybe?

[NappyKorn]

The main point of that card when it was made was to keep Sam from becoming the Ring-Bearer if Frodo was killed.

[Malachi]

I believe Helpless was originally designed to disable Sam's ability go become the Ring-bearer if Frodo dies. So, if you play it on Son of Hamfast he cannot use his abilities and basically becomes useless. If you play it on Bearer of Great Need, he loses his ability and resistance, which could be quite deadly. So, it's a very powerful card if played against the right deck.

[Elessar's Socks]

Game text was described in the August 2007 CRD if you'd like all the gritty details. But basically it covers everything in the box (barring stuff like lore and collector's info), including bolded keywords.

[TheJord]

This I find interesting, because game text and abilities people often seperate. If what ES says is true, Sam can no longer have the ring-bearer keyword and you lose

[Elessar's Socks]

Hold on, that's not good.

Game text includes all the text in the box below the card type line except for helper text, lore, collector's info, and marketing text (such as "DGMA Premier Series – France"). On a site card, this box is located below the image (there is no card type line on a site). On The One Ring cards, there is no box around the game text, but the concept is the same.

Any boldfaced keyword that appears in this box (such as Easterling, Fierce, or Defender +1) is game text. Card titles, subtitles, and items on the card type line (card types, races, and classes) are not game text. Exception: On an event card, the word to the right of the card type (such as MANEUVER or SKIRMISH) is game text.

Sometimes game text is added to a card by an effect, even though that text is not printed on that card.

*sighs and reaches for the other rules documents* Wonder how Decipher got out of this one. Maybe it has something to do with the ringed resistance icon.

[TheJord]

Good ol' D. In the other thread we are saying that bearer requirements dont matter after a card is attached to a companion.

So if Sam loses his ring-bearer keyword does this not matter? Does the ring not just float away?

[Thranduil]

But BoGN does not have the Ring-bearer keyword (though it would seem that he would lose Ring-bound, though perhaps not if my next "postulation" ( ) is correct). Instead, he has a ringed resistance which would make him the Ring-bearer independently of his game text? If so, then he also becomes automatically Ring-bound because he's the Ring-bearer.

Thranduil

[Elf_Lvr]

Well, rules say that all ring-bearers (and Sams) have Ring-bound, even if it's not printed on the card, right?

And yeah, they don't actually have the "Ring-bearer" keyword either - it's sort of implied by the ringed resistance. I guess.

That's really the only way I can explain it.

[Elessar's Socks]

Instead, he has a ringed resistance which would make him the Ring-bearer independently of his game text?

That's what I was thinking, but unfortunately the ringed resistance icon just makes the character gain the keywords Ring-bearer and Ring-bound (if bearing The One Ring), which crashes into this:

Sometimes game text is added to a card by an effect, even though that text is not printed on that card.

(Nevermind that icon-less versions of Sam are still out of the loop.)

How about just saying the Ring-bearer always has the Ring-bearer and Ring-bound keywords in effect (cannot be lost, still applies even if the rest of the game text does not apply). Yeah. *passes around some chicken wings*

[SomeRandomDude]

Well, rules say that all ring-bearers (and Sams) have Ring-bound, even if it's not printed on the card, right?

Yes, at this is important to remember with the reflections ring-bearers, Boromir, for example, is unbound unless played as the ring-bearer. And thus, ring-bound is a result of being the ring-bearer, meaning that even if Sam loses the ring-bound text, he's still ring-bound, i.e. can't be killed by Lackey or other stuff that hates on unbound comps.

[DáinIronfoot]

He stays the Ring-bearer and thus Ring-bound as well. That's the only way I think you can rule it, especially since it is the ringed resistance ICON rather than text that makes him a potential Ring-bearer in the first place.

It's a very nasty way of dropping his resistance to only 5, though.

[leokula]

Well when there are no specific rulings I think we should all go for common sense. I say RB Sam loses his game text but keeps being the RB.

OK, D missed this one, but we're talking about a card that no one plays for centuries, so it's useless discussion  . Anyway as NK said, it was meant to help twilight nazguls and keep sam away from bearing the ring, not win the game outright by removing "Ring-bearer" from the RB's game text.

[Pepin The Breve]

He stays the Ring-bearer and thus Ring-bound as well. That's the only way I think you can rule it, especially since it is the ringed resistance ICON rather than text that makes him a potential Ring-bearer in the first place.

It's a very nasty way of dropping his resistance to only 5, though.

    Dáin get it right here... Any character with the resistence ring icon is consider a ring-bearer. If you play Helpless on him just his game text will go away...yeah i know...evil.