Flaw in Star Wars Plot (Episodes 4, 5, and 6 only)

[ket_the_jet]

I think you are taking this far too personally. Every government has dark dealings. It's the way the game is played.

I didn't straight up say that the Death Star was the World Trade Center or a U.K. subway or a Mumbai government center. But I am saying I can see the similarities.
-wtk

[Pepi]

No...I'm not taking it personal at all. It's just a debate. I'm just trying to prove that the plot is reasonable enough.

[Elessar's Socks]

Well, you might say that. But the genocide of the people at Alderaan, again, was representative of a government trying to stop an uprising by those political terrorists, the Rebel Alliance.
-wtk

You could protect your own interests and fart evil glitter at the same time. This to me is an example of an evil act, even in defense of the Empire.

Which comes to the next point--"Evil Empire" is a broad term. Do you have any criteria for that?

[ket_the_jet]

Which comes to the next point--"Evil Empire" is a broad term. Do you have any criteria for that?

No, and that's a good point. I don't think anyone in the movies ever refers to the "Empire" as "the Evil Empire;" however, that's largely how it is known by fanboys across the galaxy.

If the Empire brought galactic stability, is the sacrifice of one planet of agent provocateurs a big loss? At what point do the ends justify the means?
-wtk

[Pepi]

There's another thing. Now this is strictly my oppinion. Totalitarian regime isn't rly great...Especially if your monarch happens to be a sith lord aswell. It's not just the way Palpatine ruled. It was the way how he got to power. The was I see it, that alone would be a reason good enough to rebel.
The fact is that people were living in fear under Palpatine. I mean...A giant doomsday device floating device floating over your planet. It's no wonder. Someone once said: "Trust is good. Control is better." U might agree with that, but i'm just too idealistic for that. xD

[ket_the_jet]

But...they never talk about how Palpatine came to power in 4, 5, and 6. Keep in mind that I basically disregard the "new" trilogy. In fact, I still haven't seen number 3.

All we really know about Palpatine is that he says that he is going to squash the rebellion. Seems reasonable since they are messing with his #$&*@!.
-wtk

[Pepi]

About palpy we do know that in ep5 he's trying to replace Vader with Luke. Basically to betray Darth Vader. That's pretty evil to me. In fact, Dante reserved the 9th circle of #$&*@! for traitors. Just saying this, cuz i got under the impression, that u're trying to convince me, that palpatine is just a good emperor. Kinda hard to get episodes 1,2,3 out of the head though, because his rise to power is so well described there. But like I said earlier...The concept of the original trilogy is that oppressed people will rebel. Just like WW2.
I still can't get over the Alderaan incident, though. Possessing a weapon that can wipe out entire planets is evil enough, but using it is much worse.
Anyway...I found an interesting quote from wikipedia: "Since the initial theatrical run of Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Palpatine has become a symbol of evil and sinister deception in popular culture. Palpatine was ranked #3 greatest villain by Wizard magazine on its "100 Greatest Villains of All Time" list."
That pretty much kills it. If the Emperor is the 3rd greatest villain, that must mean that the Empire must be like the 1st most evil empire...Except if 1st and 2nd villains are emperors aswell. :D

[ket_the_jet]

To the question of the Emperor in said poll, what was the context of the question? Star Wars in general? Or just the three films I bring into question?

I am not old by any means, but I grew up watching 4, 5, and 6. They are great movies. I love 4 and 5, and 6 is okay. But even as a kid who had all the action figures, I was disappointed when they decided to make episodes 1, 2, and 3.

Furthermore, there is nothing evil about replacing your aide with another aide. That's politics. That's the real world. If you don't perform to your job's specifications, you will get replaced. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there.

Like I said originally, there are no signs that the Empire oppresses anyone. It may be implied, but it is only implied by the "freedom fighters" who are working to bring the Empire down.

You are so caught up on the Alderaan thing. So let's flash forward to the Death Star II. That was still in construction. The Technical Book of Science Fiction Films suggested the population of the first Death Star was 31,622,963...and the second Death Star was bigger.

The second Death Star likely had to be individually contracted to companies to build something of that magnitude...easily 1 million workers. Now, when the Rebel Alliance decides they want to blow that #$&*@! up, they are killing 1 million laborers.

Those are the people (and aliens) who are trying to make their place in the world, support families. And do not argue evacuation, because I am sure that high-ranking military personel would have a much easier time getting off the ship than "Joe Electrician."

I would suggest that the Rebel Alliance had just as many atrocities in the war.
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

In fact, I think the Rebel Alliance was worse, between the apathetic killings of millions of independent laborers in both Death Stars, the involvement of an independent mining station and the tragic end for its employees (and stockholders), and the callous exploitation of Ewoks (who got thrashed, by the way).

Oh, and by the way, what do you think happens when you detonate a spherical metal honeycomb over five hundred miles wide just above the atmosphere of a habitable world? Regardless of specifics, the world won't remain habitable for long.
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

Then imagine the tailors, the bartenders, the merchants, the cobblers, the restauranteurs, the bakers, the droid-repairers, the technicians, the plumbers, the entertainers, the prostitutes, the waiters and waitresses, the stowaways, and the zookeepers on that thing.
-wtk

[Gil-Estel]

Atrocities are always a metter of perspective. Isn't it Hawk that has in his personal text: if someone attacks us they are evil, if we attack someone, it is a task of God.

[Pepi]

I couldn't say it better myself. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and even if we disregard everything we know about star wars, and say that there were two political parties struggling for the dominance...The rebels won. People weren't complaining after. They lived happily in the New Republic, reastablished the new jedi order. If they would be living so happily under the rule of the empire, there would be rebels after the end of episode 6 aswell. I know i went out of 4,5,6 again...Just take it as an example. The fact is that SW isn't just 4,5,6 anymore. I agree those parts are better, and back there might have been a bit cloudy. I guess i'm a bit younger, and I watched 4,5,6 only after the episode 1. But yeh...When the Jedi are destroyed, even the Sith can have some peace, I guess. Peace in terms, that they just blow up an occasional planet, that's all. But tell me honestly...Would u like to live under the empire's government?

[ket_the_jet]

No, no, no. "People weren't complaining when the Rebels took over" is not ever mentioned in the films.

Again, look directly at the films, nothing else.

And the Rebel Alliance wasn't a political party. It was a terrorist cell.
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

The problem is that, when you look at such a small part of the overall cannon, you can start to see anything.

[ket_the_jet]

The problem is that, when you look at such a small part of the overall cannon, you can start to see anything.

Sort of. I would consider that I am looking at the three original films and that is what should define cannon. Anything else was superfluous attempts to capitalize on the franchise and make easy money. How many Star Wars novels have been released?

I don't consider this any different than saying "Look at the books Tolkien wrote" and not supplementing  it with films, fan scripts, card games, etc. I don't remember Tolkien ever saying that Taurnil was deadly with a bow at long range.
-wtk